Welcome to episode #67 of the PPC Show , where we interview the best and brightest in paid search and paid social advertising. This week I'm joined by Nash Haywood, Senior Paid Media Manager at Element Three.

In this episode, Nash outlines some tips for setting up campaigns with Facebook's budget optimization tool and how you can scale your results using this new feature.

If you're not familiar with this new feature, the social network said in a Facebook Business blog post that the Campaign Budget Optimization feature allows advertisers to

"set one central campaign budget to optimize across ad sets by distributing budget to the top performing ad sets in real time. Campaign budget optimization is available for any campaign objective and is best suited for campaigns with multiple ad sets."

Learn about his early results and tips in this week's podcast.

Listen to the Podcast

Nash Haywood

Advanced paid media manager with 10+ years of experience in customer acquisition for eCommerce and lead generation focused companies. Connect with him on Twitter .

✔ Experience working with display, video, mobile, social, and search media buying platforms with an ability to build complex and comprehensive programs that meet client goals.
✔ Have worked in startups, mid-market and enterprise companies to attract, acquire, and retain profitable customers with a heavy emphasis on strategy and tactical execution.
✔ Highly experienced in multi-channel digital marketing campaign orchestration using paid (PPC) and organic (SEO) search, display, affiliate, and paid social channels for B2B and B2C.

But, above all else, family is his number one priority. At home, Nash lives with his wife, Danielle, and their two beautiful girls, Charlotte and Adalyn.

Podcast Transcript

Nash Haywood: 00:01                       Hey JD, what's up? Thanks for having me man.

JD Prater: 00:02                       Yeah man I'm pretty excited to have you on. We've got to kind of talk going on Twitter around some really cool Facebook budget optimization features and I thought oh man this is going to be perfect for the PPC show so you know thanks again for coming on and agreeing to talk to us about Facebook ads. Everyone's favorite kind of ads.

Nash Haywood: 00:23                       Yeah no problem. I've been doing Facebook ads for like three or four years now. And honestly like the platform keeps getting better there so they keep throwing out stuff that impresses me personally. I think that there's lots of opportunities for different brands to use different ways. But yeah I'm happy to talk about how the budget optimization has been working for us and kind of some of the tactics we've been using to scale that up.

JD Prater: 00:55                       Sweet man. Well before we get started on all of those fun things. What don't you give us a quick intro. Who is Nash Haywood and tell us about where you work?

Nash Haywood: 01:02                       Yes I work at Element 3. We're a modern marketing agency based in Indianapolis.

Nash Haywood: 01:07                       We are kind of like a full service agency. We have in-house creative team, video team, and paid team which I head up. And technical SEO so were kind of doing a lot of different things but we got the opportunity work with lots of big brands and kind of have the support of all the different groups of people so being able to do really killer video is great for Facebook and kind of all of the different platforms and how important that is and how having a supportive creative team to come up with ad concepts. All of that is just really good when you're kind of at an agency environment so I have a lot of support and able to do different things and it's been really great. So yeah Element 3 some notable clients Airstream, Thor Industries, Boston Whaler boats kind of in the luxury outdoor space or with some other clients like the defender few others.

Nash Haywood: 02:02                       But yes as far as Facebook there's a ton of opportunity. I would say that you know we're really kind of focused on lead gen for the most part. Lead gen for some clients B2B but for other it's kind of for the consumer on that luxury purchase. So yeah I think a lot of the tactics we'll talk about are applicable to both B2B and B2C scenarios.

JD Prater: 02:27                       Perfect Man. Well you said you running some Facebook ads for quite awhile. Did you get your start in paid search and then convert over or do you still run both search and social?

Nash Haywood: 02:37                       So we run both. We do a little bit of programmatic now as well. But you know search really has been a tried and true for a long time. But it's very low funnel. So you know it's hard to scale if you're not in like very high volume industry and you know Facebook their platform just the advancements that it's had and the targeting and all the data that you have access to you can definitely influence the search demand and you can just drive leads from it. So I started out with search love search and what it's capable of but Facebook really has kind of opened up this like massive set of data in their walled garden where they really don't let you kind of get out of that as much as they can control it. And we honestly have kind of shifted some of our budgets over to Facebook from search.

Nash Haywood: 03:36                       Is just where the ROI is right now and you know stuff that moves pretty quickly. So as we continue to evaluate like where the results are coming from Facebook. I think it's going to be part of that mix. But you know there's always new things coming into play but I don't see Facebook going away anytime soon.

JD Prater: 03:54                       No, definitely not definitely not. Especially when they keep rolling out of the features left and right. So that being said man, Facebook recently just released at least to a majority of advertisers it may still be rolling out but this budget optimization feature which is what I'm going to kind of tee up for. But basically what it does is you can sell this budget at the campaign level and then Facebook will go in to the ad sets underneath that campaign and distribute that budget across those ads with the intention of getting you the best possible results. And the most amount results for the cheapest price. So I think it's a really great feature to rollout. And I know that you've been testing for two of your clients so you know. Tell us about some of the things that you've seen maybe some tips that you've run into for campaigns set up and then how do you kind of scale and ramp these this kind of feature?

Facebook Campaign Budget Optimization Tool

Nash Haywood: 04:55                       Yeah, so we've been using it for about a month here and noticed it was active and the account wanted to test it out. It was good timing for one of the accounts has to be on a large account build in a campaign for the fourth quarter. But yeah we've been using it for two clients kind of two different scenarios one is a large dealer program nationwide with some geographic constraints. So a lot of separate campaigns that we're doing in a very similar way. Another brand we work with has nationwide campaigns and has allowed us to really kind of focus on those audiences nationally and then really focus on the ROI whereas the first one is really you know restricted to like a radius around their specific location. So as we have like scaled it up there's been a good bit of trial and error. I would say kind of approaching it initially with the standard like mentality of how you would manage and set budgets really wasn't necessarily going to be effective.

Nash Haywood: 05:57                       And looking at the way that you kind of would tier an audience like levels of importance. So like obviously your website custom audiences first retargeting and like engagement audience are really going to convert well for you. Interest based audiences being second. And then like lookalikes and the different percentages of those kind of following up after that. How we've gone about doing that. When you're looking at those assets holistically like in that campaign you don't want to necessarily go ahead and mix like retargeting with interest based targeting or lookalikes. You kind of want to like set it up in a way that you're dealing with all of your retargeting audiences and kind of letting Facebook predict what's going to work best and scale the budgets toward those ad ads are going to also be a factor in that as well.

Nash Haywood: 06:51                       But the way that we set it up is that there's main website custom audiences, interest, and then lookalikes and then as far as how we've worked with lookalikes taking the top conversion paths and top conversion points on the Web site and then taking those in and putting all the 1 percent lookalikes together and then creating a separate campaign for the 2 percent lookalikes. The reason for that is just simply because you know there's higher accuracy in this small percentages and as you scale out a little bit less accuracy. And then also budgeting because you're setting the campaign level you know you want to be able to put a larger percentage of the overall client budget on those high ROI retargeting audiences and kind of scale out from there for your total budget. And then just manage the ROI from there.

Nash Haywood: 07:39                       So there's been there's been a number of different things that we've looked at and we kind of settled on having this tiered approach for the audiences and managing it that way. And that has effectively allowed us to scale and allowed us to increase budget when we start to see you know lookalikes performing well in that particular segment. Surprisingly we had 2 percent lookalike perform really well more so than the 1 percent and that that scaled out really well and you know it's just kind of like you start to manage the budget.

Nash Haywood: 08:12                       But it's kind of more on the campaign level versus the asset level which I think is what most marketers are used to.

JD Prater: 08:20                       Yeah definitely. So let me kind of say kind of what you said back to you to make sure I fully understand. So you got one campaign that has 1 percent lookalikes audiences you got another campaign that has 2 percent lookalikes.  Is that much correct?

Nash Haywood: 08:35                       Yeah exactly.

JD Prater: 08:36                       Cool. And then are you using like negatived so are you then going into the 2 percent and excluding the 1 percent.  Or is there technically some overlap between those two campaigns

Nash Haywood: 08:53                       Yeah. No normal best practices with lookalikes like excluding the audiences so we're not like hitting the same people with two separate campaigns.

Nash Haywood: 08:58                       The reason is that we're carrying them with 1 percent 2 percent was initially we went into a kind of mixed up smaller audiences you know retargeting interest look alike and the budget initially just skewed right to the retargeting. So it was like clear clearly like that's going to happen. So breaking it out and in a more segmented approach and kind of what would we approach first with a budget that's where we put the largest amount and kind of group those together. And then as we scale up the lookalikes we excluded everything as you would do typically with any type of audience like that and then kind of gone from there.

Nash Haywood: 09:37                       So I mean even at this point we're still kind of getting a feel for it but the volume has really been quite nice that it's been able to deliver it really kind of negates the need to go into the accounts and just add set budgets which can be time consuming. But I've also noticed and I think this is just Facebook you know releasing this to kind of a general availability to everybody with Facebook has it hasn't been perfect. Like there's definitely been some assets that I think would have had a lower CPA if you know differently set up but what we ended up doing was having like more conversions at a higher cost and things are just a little bit off. But it doesn't really necessarily make sense on paper. So yes still trying to work through some of those things and you know letting Facebook take over the building between those assets has worked pretty well.

JD Prater: 10:41                       Yeah, I've seen the exact same thing I mean Facebook anytime you go when you start doing some manual bidding I've just seen like just it's just not doesn't work as well or something with automated bidding that just seems to work so much better.

JD Prater: 10:54                       As far as scaling and getting that kind of performance that you want. So to that end you know whenever we think about setting up these campaigns you know we've been kind of focusing on lookalikes so walk us through how you think through a funnel whenever you're really kind of creating these different campaigns maybe different types of optimization or objective features and azure kind of sequencing your ads and your audience is to make sure that you're getting the best type of result.

Nash Haywood: 11:25                       Yeah for sure. I think there's like two paths on this conversation. One is kind of the combination between more than one campaigning campaign typing kind of connecting the dots and then there's a second path which you know we've been testing over the past six months or so which is like this 100 percent Facebook ads funnel. Because of the number of ad units that we have available were using never actually ends up leaving Facebook and being able to use that pretty effectively.

Nash Haywood: 11:55                       So I mean as far as like the combination tactics I think some of the stuff that's worked really well for us. When you start to take demographic and interest based targets we found some of the larger interests based segments and then taking demographic like age as well as like household income provides a pretty targeted segment. As long as it's in the vicinity of like 200-300,000 that that's been able to scale pretty well with like conversion based campaign to other things that we've done that have worked pretty well when using lead ads as a format is a really effective idea but kind of going towards an audience that hasn't been warmed up properly just ends up costing you more or the cost per lead.

Nash Haywood: 12:49                       We focused on using CPM based bidding with Reach and just really kind of warming up an audience with you know general brand again getting them used to seeing the brand on Facebook and then you know having some type of either content offer or something of that nature. That's more of a soft sell upfront. That that has worked effectively. So it looks like you know maybe 2 to 2 to 3 weeks depending on the audience size and budget with a reach based campaign.

Nash Haywood: 13:19                       And that and starting the lead ads campaign is having a little bit of overlap with the same audience shutting off the reach based campaign and then scaling up the budgets for the leads based campaign. Having that overlap the audience warmed up just generally has resulted in a better clickthrough rates and more engagement on those ads so that that has been kind of a really simple but effective strategy for us.

Nash Haywood: 13:46                       The other one has been you know taking a traffic based campaign driving people to Web site content blog or you know other interesting things kind of segmenting them based on clicks you know having a number of different ads with different content rotate them within a larger audience driving them to a page seeing what they clicked on and then retargeting them with conversion based campaign of letting Facebook take over the bidding on the conversion campaign.

Nash Haywood: 14:15                       But for the traffic campaign to really focus on doing a manual bid in those situations and making sure that you're effectively driving those clicks and really really using the budget smartly in those situations as it is kind of a one two punch that you need to execute on. But that that's been pretty effective. I'd say the only caveat to that is really that you have a client with a lot of content that is separate in topic that has very clear path to conversion after. So if that's the case then that can be pretty effective.

JD Prater: 14:55                       Cool cool. Yeah I like a couple of those things so let me kind rewind. Let's go back to facebook specific audiences. What are some of the audiences that you like when we think about people not leaving Facebook which I think is going to be a huge trend for 2018 is Facebook doesn't want people to leave. But how do you what are some of the audiences that you go to. It's like maybe your first couple that you build out.

Nash Haywood: 15:23                       It's actually pretty simple so what we've done is really focus on video views upfront. It does require you have some video assets but the costs from production of that's not too expensive. And then taking those showing that to a very large audience and then taking a percentage of people that look at those videos watch like through the video like 50 percent or so and then putting them into a Web site custom audience based on views and then showing them another ad and that ad could potentially be a canvas ad or it could just go straight to a lead ad. But I like adding the second step in there with a canvas because you're really getting them on a web page.

Nash Haywood: 16:09                       And that canvas side allowing you know the messaging to speak to you know pain points for that particular audience and then you know having to click through at the at the bottom of the Canvas to a landing page but if somebody is scrolling in that Canvas and there's some engagement there you can definitely follow up with another custom audience based on people that engage with the canvas ad and then use a lead ad so they're never actually leaving the Facebook ecosystem.

Nash Haywood: 16:40                       I  think naturally Facebook favors this type of ad format just because if they stay on Facebook they can sell more advertising they can you know make more money from each user session. So I think there's there's definitely a movement in that direction.

Nash Haywood: 16:57                       And the thing is for marketers it works and it works really well lead ad formats just based on my sample set of data has really started to outperform conversions. I'm not in all cases but if you look at like across the board they're very very effective. And you know it's really nice to be able to kick somebody over to a CRM marketing automation system and then you know start doing some type of lead nurturing or are drip marketing from there.

JD Prater: 17:28                       Yeah I agree with that 100 percent. There's some really good stuff out there. Do you guys you know do you do any other type of you know maybe page engagement or website engagement type of audiences as well.

Nash Haywood: 17:47                       Yeah page engagement. As like a retailer I kind of view as like a retargeting audience although it is definitely separate. You know there is sometimes you know hundreds of thousands of users who can target that that are in that page engagement segment that aren't going to be in year like 180 day retargeting segment. So the ability to just to use that as a volume driver for like total number of people you can actually reach with the campaign has been pretty crucial for some of the brands we're working with. But yes as far as like the different segments and audiences that have come out recently I'd say that's probably one of the most valuable ones in my mind. Obviously you have to have a pretty high engagement Facebook page for it to work effectively. But if that is the case then I think you're just incrementally adding on a number of people who already been exposed to the brand already have some type of brand affinity that you can work further down the funnel.

JD Prater: 18:48                       Yeah definitely. Cool cool man. Well something else I want to follow up with you on as you were talking about kind of audience size and scalability specifically for optimization for conversions and so you had mentioned like 200 to 300,000.  Do you have a minimum audience requirement that you like to make sure that you're targeting when you're thinking about optimizing for conversions. I know this could be a fun hot topic.

Nash Haywood: 19:15                       Yeah I mean it really depends on how how many conversions are coming in and like what that ad set targeting is. Facebook's like magic number seems to be 50 with with targeting. And like once you get to that point you can kind of see that there is like a point where their machine Larian kind of takes off and has enough data to appropriately work with just generally I like to have at least 100,000 anything less than that. And I think your your ad frequency gets a little bit high but it gives kind of Facebook room to breathe when it's doing bidding and reaching enough people like frequency of people's visits to Facebook I think are a factor in that as well. More and more more often in mobile app and like you know spending an hour or two a day on Facebook some people you know visit occasionally.

Nash Haywood: 20:09                       So just having it having larger sets of data especially with how much data Facebook has. I think ultimately is a good thing. If you can do it. I mean I would say you know if you have a decently targeted audience of that size. Like move forward with it. But if you have something smaller that is very targeted that can work as well it really just comes down to like the particular situation and have the considerations for bidding for for automated bidding. Absolutely. Over 100k. But if you're really focusing on granularity I think you can do some manual bids and kind of bid high to get in and kind of make sure your your ads are seen. But you know that limits you as far as the scalability. So there's kind of pros and cons these each approach.

JD Prater: 21:00                       Nice. Yeah I definitely agree with that. With so here's kind of a sticky one right. So for 2018. All right. So it looks like Facebook is really taking over kind of the output of campaign creation, ad creation, budgeting, bidding, and the really no one thing you're really controlling is just the inputs. So let's think about Facebook optimizing our budgets they pretty much optimize Oliver audiences think ground like look alike audiences. Most of us are doing automated bidding rights we're giving Facebook control of that. They're taking over ad creation and ad testing for us. Think about the split test think about there. Their latest integration where you can create 6200 ads. You know like in the snap of a finger. Right. So moving into 2018 like where do you see the role of a Facebook advertiser?

Nash Haywood: 21:57                       It''s a really good question. They are making it easy. They're making it easy to spend money with them. They're also making it easy to get results. And that works in Facebook's favor so you know why. Why not let people good ROI or why. And and let them focus on the other things. I think to that end it goes towards looking at the entire funnel. Both the online funnel and how that's set up you know you're still going to really need to focus on your audiences to really you know drive conversions. If something is broken or it doesn't really make sense that can be a huge area where you can improve things. So I think it goes back to like setting up offers that makes sense for the audiences. And then offline conversions if you're in a business where you're not doing a commerce and you need to do close loop reporting and re-import offline conversions back to Facebook.

Nash Haywood: 23:00                       Those are the type of things that are going to add value to their billing algorithm. And then also like working with clients on the sales process and the transition from an online add experience to the CRM syncing those audiences back to Facebook and then having you know email coinciding with another message and really just I think gives marketers an opportunity to be more strategic with what they're doing and focus less on kind of clicking buttons and really kind of doing a lot of the stuff that can be automated by Facebook. I think it's a really good thing. I think ultimately you end up having better campaigns yet end up getting better results because you're focusing on some of those you know various advertiser specific scenarios like their business model and what's making them money and all those things that really matter.

Nash Haywood: 23:55                       But sometimes you don't get too caught up in really focusing on what was my bid or not what was my CPA for a particular campaign just focus on the end result. How much. What was the revenue you drove her you know how many sales came from that.

JD Prater: 24:12                       Yes. I mean we know that that's going to be a big trend for 2018 as well as marketers are basically being held to lower in the funnel. No I mean SQL well is the new MQL.

JD Prater: 24:24                       And even then its contribution to pipeline are you think about are ROI. So I think that's going to be huge especially for B2B. I think it's always been a trooper B2C but with this idea around strategy and really trusting Facebook it's really kind of moving away from paid search. So do you think that paid search people you know this is a little bit of a Facebook topic but I mean where do you see that going within the automation as well. Because every time it looks like Google wants to do some automation. People freak out but whenever Facebook does it people like cheer.

Nash Haywood: 25:01                       Yeah it's kind of crazy how much day that Facebook has. If he if you can set like Google has a lot of data. Obviously the Facebook has so much personal data as well. It's all self provided so it's pretty accurate. So when you think about like automated bidding for search I think it is a good way to think about just like how how can you provide the platforms with the data that they need or the things that they need to have the campaign scale successfully. And by that like you know GDN for conversions and using some of the dynamic ads that they have and and kind of letting it letting it take over the placement on the page the size of the ad and you know predictive bidding that they have that has worked really well and I've seen maximize conversions bidding work well it just comes down to volume.

Nash Haywood: 25:54                       If you have decent volume you have decent data which is you know both platforms need to work with and you're giving it like back to life. The thing I've just mentioned before with how you need to have good advertising meaning like a good offer and the right audience line that as long as you're doing those things as a marketer I embrace that type of automation because ultimately those platforms are in no way more about the user than you are. You can you can infer a number of different things but at the end of the day like they're trying to get results for advertisers and you know that's also a fine balance of like how much money are they making.

Nash Haywood: 26:36                       And you know Wall Street and things like that so as like a digital marketing manager I think one of the roles outside of doing an effective marketing and good advertising is really just as straddling the line between what is driving results and cost per lead and you know offline conversions are really measuring customer lifetime value is the most critical thing because conversions can come in at a very high level or high volume.  But if they're not converting off line. That's obviously a problem and if you haven't significantly higher CPA but they're converting a 50 or a 30 percent rate that's more profitable. So just knowing your numbers and working with a client to understand those and how to translate online success into offline success. Those are the things that truly matter. Automated bidding is just something that's going to happening continually happen. As I think Facebook and Google it take away a certain level of control that you have as a marketer and kind of let their own engine kick and as they get more advanced with what they're doing.

JD Prater: 27:42                       Nice man. I think that's a really good answer. Those are really really well put kind of this consultation approach and how we think about our roles you know within an agency. Now that's a really good answer so let me give you a quick little curveball here so I'm sure people are listening and they're thinking look man I'm not getting enough conversions right.  So I've got not enough conversions for Facebook to really optimize towards and I've got a long sales cycles so you know LTV is difficult for me to also measure how do you kind of combat or take what is your answer to those types of objections?

Nash Haywood: 28:20                       So I think you start with like you really look at the business model and how people want to do business with you.  So if it's something like in the case of the companies that we work with primarily on the 3 there are some pretty big purchases boats and RVs are going to be significant amount of money.

Nash Haywood: 28:39                       So there's a certain high touch element to the sale cycle and they're definitely going offline to make that purchase. But I think just focusing on you know really what that is for your particular client or your business is going to be very important. So things that you can leverage with Facebook under utilized ness messenger ads like chatting with a live person. I mean there's definitely some people using bots with Messenger ads but chatting with a live person either through a messenger ad or a live chat on a on a landing page can be the online offline gap that you're able to bridge and connecting those. Alternately I think is going to be helpful for a lot of a lot of different brands.

JD Prater: 29:29                       Yeah and I think also quick plug AdStage. We just came out with our Q3 benchmark report that does include Facebook Messenger and so make sure you guys go take a look at that. Cool man.

JD Prater: 29:40                       Well let's let's transition now and you do into some lightning round so I'm going ask you a series of questions and you've got 60 seconds to answer each one. You ready to go?

Nash Haywood: 29:40                       I  think so.

JD Prater: 29:55                       All right man. I'll tee you off as this is how I love starting the round. So first question is you've got no meetings tomorrow afternoon. No internal no external you've got like three hours blocked off just to catch up on the industry. What are some of the places that you go to find out what's going on in PPC and facebook ads you know. So blogs, Twitter, videos, podcast you know like what are you consuming?

Nash Haywood: 30:25                       It's a great question. So I think there's a couple places growth hackers as a good Web site. I just love reading that content people are kind of pushing the envelope on different tactics and I'm just reading about tons of new things that people are doing and stuff I've never thought about. That's one place. Another one Slack is definitely number of different communities on their online genius's is a nice community. Like from an audience size variation of topics.

Nash Haywood: 30:57                       Another one would be #PPCChat and #FBAdsChat . Obviously there's lots of marketers still on Twitter. I think some would argue that it's not many people on Twitter. But I digress. Also you know just the normal blogs and search engine land to kind of keep me up to date on the types of like platform updates and kind of the things that surround that. And then I'll pipe all that stuff into the RSS reader. You know to kind of go through it on my phone or wherever I use feedly and that's been great. And like to add things to pocket and then post to Twitter so other people can see it. So as much as I can I like to kind of get that on the go between meetings or in the elevator that's a thing.

Nash Haywood: 31:47                       So try to keep up as much as possible. But sometimes it's super difficult. However Facebook lives or excuse me Twitter live chats honestly have been like one of the most educational things because it's like real time engagement like have it now. It's stuff that people are dealing with like at that moment and you're kind of talking to people that are you know doing the same type of strategic things that you are.

JD Prater: 32:11                       Yeah I would definitely agree that there are some really good ones. It's cool. All right. Next question for you. So you've been running some Facebook ads for a couple of years now so what's something that you know now that you wish you would have known then starting out?

Nash Haywood: 32:30                       So this is kind of a cop out answer but you know you can't you can't fix like bad marketing work on the foundational stuff first. That is both the content that you're promoting and the concept behind your campaign. You know the way that you're talking about it is super important for one earnings people's trust but also like getting to the next step with any type of leads or anything like that. Also like make sure your tracking is 100 percent good. QA it like 5 different times in multiple browsers on mobile. Make sure everything is working correctly. If you're not measuring it obviously it didn't happen even if it did so. And really like just having a decent actually attribution mindset.

Nash Haywood: 33:20                       What I mean by that is not all brands can do for attribution but in a lot of cases just basic attribution capturing some values and hidden fields on the submissions can provide enough like a glimpse at the customer lifetime value as they progress through the Martech stack. To give you a good idea of where your leads are coming from and like ultimately like what's making them convert to back out those numbers. Obviously if you can do more do more but those just taking a step in the right direction with attribution I think is definitely a good thing.

JD Prater: 33:58                       All right. Question number three here what is a skill/behavior/trait that you think all Facebook advertisers have in common?

Nash Haywood: 34:10                       Good question. I think it's a desire to reach new audiences. Facebook in my mind is a very effective platform retargeting across platforms is going to be effective. But because of the sheer volume of people you can reach it is a very good and controlled environment to have top of all awareness. And then you know be pushing people into whatever action that that would be. So when when approaching Facebook and looking at it like across many different industries and kind of objectives I think the one thing they have is scale. And that's why a lot of people go to them and you know as you continue to grow your ad budget and kind of the complexity of what you're doing Facebook is able to support that. And they're introducing new things that allow you to to take advantage of messenger ads or canvas and video views and there it seems like they're listening to to marketers as well. So I think it's scalability. And just having so many people available to reach is nice.

JD Prater: 35:28                       All right. Tomorrow you're doing well. All right. How about this one. Most overrated Facebook feature and under rated Facebook feature?

Nash Haywood: 35:43                       Overrated, I mentioned this when we we were chatting on Twitter I think clicks to a website is getting phased out simply because the way that mobile is the load times I think a lot of people abandon those clicks or their accidental clicks and bidding towards that has been you know it can be a strategy that works but you need to definitely account for that as far as your overall costs and maybe multiplier CPC by two or three.

Nash Haywood: 36:15                       Most underrated feature. I would say honestly it's video being able to reach so many people and drive views so inexpensively and doing video with a rich campaign is super effective from the perspective of being able to get your custom thumbnail for that video in front of so many people. And then also have the benefit of having all those video views testing both video views and the reach objective reach. If you have a good video can drive as many views as a video of you campaign but then you also get that benefit of having so many brand impressions.  And if you customize the actual thumbnail image those are essentially free when you compare it to the video views objective.

JD Prater: 37:10                       Last question. You ready. So let's say tomorrow you're unable to do Facebook ads anymore.  You can't run digital advertising like what is your fallback career.

Nash Haywood: 37:27                       Ooh that's a good question. I worked at a newspaper like right out of college, Baltimore Sun and. His awesome experience they were kind of going through this transition. But I definitely like talking to people and covering stuff. In the age of like the internet taking over news and kind of a newspaper and having really focused reporting and in-depth reporting I think whatever you're interested in being able to report on that is an awesome thing. Let's assume the internet doesn't go away. Being able to publish and write your thoughts down and reach a large audience I think would would be something that I would be focused on doing professionally for a news organization or otherwise. And I think a lot has a lot of people now have found you know you have a small audience and still make a career of it as long as you're adding value. So online courses and different things are like just reporting on things and kind of talking to interesting people as well as you know maybe you know putting out information in an online course format or something like that I think those those all can be shining. Knowledge is definitely something that I would I would try to do.

JD Prater: 38:49                       Fantastic. Well you made it. We have completed the episode. Thank you so much for coming on and talking to us about some really cool Facebook features that you've experimented with and tested and give us a really good optimization tips.

Nash Haywood: 39:06                       Yeah thanks JD appreciate you having me. Hope you finish your cup of coffee.

JD Prater: 39:13                       You know it. I'm almost done with a coffee cup number two. So thanks again man.

Nash Haywood: 39:13                       Good stuff. Talk to you soon!